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MORE THOUGHTS ON THE UPS STRIKE!
More excellent points....
made by all. Let me first say that my heart goes out to Van, Marilyn and ARM! I agree, ARM...one can have a
college degree and still lose their jobs in this day and time. Which is exactly my point. No job security.
As for Marilyn. I'm not sure how to approach this subject, as I can feel the anger through your post. At the risk of
upsetting you further - which I do not mean to do intentionally - my curiousity is peeked as to what your husband
does that completely depends on the UPS service (I do not need to know, as it's none of my business, and am
going to do my best to address your post without it). While I understand many companies rely on UPS for their
daily mailings, I can't imagine a company having no other options available to them during this horrible situation.
I know the US Post Office is on overload (heard rumors they were hiring "part-time" workers to help with the
overload!), not to mention Fed Ex. I, however, cannot comment on something I know nothing about, such as your
situation. I do know, however, that thank goodness your husband has vacation time to take. Also, it is good that
you are earning $9.00/hour rather than minimum wage or slightly above. I know you state that "if we can do it, so
can they", I don't even presume to assume anothers situation to be able to make that kind of statement. There
are always situations that are much worse than our own.
You make the statement that the Union is dead and that they just don't know it yet. I think you'll be surprised,
Marilyn to find that most likely isn't the case. As a matter of fact, I look for Unions to possibly become stronger
in the future if companies keep doing what they're doing. I also know that without the Unions of the past....we would
still have sweat shops, child labor and extremely low wages. The Unions were instrumental in lawmaking that abolished
those policies! If you get your wish, and Unions die out, all I have to say is heaven help us. Right now, many companies
do have higher wages (like the $9.00/hr you enjoy) just because of the threat of possible Union interventions in their
companies! Many standards was implemented due to Unions. Unions are guilty of wrong doings, much like non-union organizations.
Such is life and human beings, unfortunately. While not perfect, the thought of no unions...ever....scares the heck
out of me. I do not have the benefit of a union job right now...but I did in the past. You say all they did was take
your money and did nothing to stop the company from leaving? What would you have liked them to do Marilyn? In order
to understand Unions limitations, one must understand the history of unions. Unions cannot, nor make the claim to,
stopping companies from closing down. Unions can however, be there to help (key word here) negotiate contracts for
employees, moderated grieves on employees behalf (many employees refuse to initate such grieves but complain when
the union "didn't back them"), etc. The bottom line is, and most people who know anything about unions knows this,
they can assist employees and stand behind them should they have conflict with a company. They can give an employee
more leverage and secure some workers rights. They cannot -- nor never could -- demand a company remain open. It is
still free enterprise in this country and a company can pretty much do what they wish, unfortunately, in the end.
What the unions ensure is to protect workers rights while on that job, to the best of their abilities. Much like
the laws of our land, it isn't perfect. I say to you that if the Unions do die out in this country, Marilyn, I hope
you have a good savings plan started...because you -- and others -- will need it once that happens. Companies will
reduce pay at an alarming rate! They are already trying to take away many workers advantages and hate unions because
the unions call attention to it and attempt to make them accountable for it.
What's really sad here is....just to survive anymore, it takes 2 incomes. Who is suffering because of it? Our kids.
All of us. Having 2 working people in the household should be a family's decision...not a mandate. What a
shame.
Posted by Jill on Wed Aug 13 19:01:40 1997.
Agree with Jill
Jill, you made some excellent points and I agree with you totally. Having worked in telecommunications for 31
years, I know how important Unions are. When downsizing came, most of the managers wanted to be in the
Union so they would have "some" protection. The companies feel no loyality to their employees yet they expect
loyality from these same people. What's wrong with this picture?
Posted by 3riversfan on Wed Aug 13 20:13:08 1997.
UPS Strike
Although I work for the competition USPS, I still support you and your union 100%..... been reading up on this.
Best wishes, If I can find the time I walk the picket line for ya some. HANG IN THERE, DON'T GIVE UP !!!!!!! I
will say USPS parcel business is up about 30% and I'm not saying this to up our business. It a matter of
principal... I support you and your UNION..... Just like I support MINE. UPWU, Gateway District, St. Louis, Mo.
Best Wishes and Good Luck............
Posted by Randall on Wed Aug 13 21:29:40 1997.
another view, Jill
You are right, Jill, in that it is no longer the world of our parents. Job security no longer depends on loyalty and
hard work and attendance. Those all help, but the bottom line is driven by productivity . From a strictly business
point of view, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Cold hearted? Yes. But as you point
out, it is cold hearted in the world of business. Like JQ, I have a small business (retail). Most small business
owners work LONG hours, and often are the last to get paid, long after employees, bank, rent, insurance, taxes,
etc. I’m sure you get the picture. Like other workers, there is no job security, as you soon find out that
EVERYBODY is your boss. Small business owners walk a fine line simply because they have few resources to
fall back upon if there is a sudden downturn in business for any reason. Believe me, small businesses soon
learn the harsh lessons of productivity or they are no longer around. But we choose our path freely and most
offer no complaint. But our job security is assured ONLY with the cooperation of our employees and the
generosity of our customers. Most successful businesses find that the better you treat your employees, the
better your business.
As for UPS and the Teamsters, there are a lot of unanswered questions and as with most statistics, a fair case
could be made for either side. But the nature of competition put both the workers and the company between a
rock and a hard place. If expenses (wages and benefits) get out of hand, the company feels pressure to raise
prices. If the price gets too high, business goes elsewhere. But this is one of the few strikes I can remember
(and the first of only a few, I’m afraid) where wages and benefits don’t seem to be the issue, and it brings out
one of the glaring shortcomings of a union. What issue do you use to gain leverage in negotiations if wages and
benefits are not in question. How can a union justify itself if the old arguments of working conditions no longer
apply? Simple, you find another issue, any issue, so long as it is volatile enough to make the members think you
are looking out for their welfare. After all, you have to keep those dues coming in. (By the way, you still pay dues,
even when you’re on strike).
Part-time employment has a well deserved reputation simply because many companies abuse it. Those same
companies also pay for it by getting the employees they deserve. There is high turnover and low morale and
poor customer service. Why should they care about a customer when the company doesn’t care about them? I
find it hard to buy the Teamsters argument that the part-timer is an abused party at UPS, though. Wages (and
benefits) are better than at the competition and by most measures are reasonable. I can think of many more
industries where part-time work would be a fair target. If the Teamsters base their entire strategy on part-time
issues, they will lose. The full timers want to go to work and there are not enough part-timers to win a contract
vote. Simple numbers are why UPS is pushing for a vote.
This is a strike where the members have to ask themselves, "What can my Union realistically get for me that is
worth a long and protracted strike?". The answer is "Not much". Unions have and continue to do good things for
their members, but the Teamsters chose the wrong strike target in UPS. It will be interesting to follow the results.
And yes, Jill, these are indeed interesting conversations. Thanks for sharing your ideas.
Posted by bill on Wed Aug 13 23:11:19 1997.
"Mother Jill Jones"
Well said Jill. I have had the opportunity to work for no union, a weak union (laid off out of senority for affirmitive
action purposes) and now a fairly strong union ( strong because it is truly run and directed by those it
represents, not outsiders). I must say that I have much better benifits and fear unwarranted attacks by
management less now with a good union standing behind me. My experience is that without a union the little guy
will be crushed for sure.
As for the UPS strike, I don't think that people who are working 40 plus hours a week should be considered part
time, this seems to be one of the issues. Seems like more and more companies are weaseling out of paying
benefits by going part time. On the other hand concerning control of the pension fund, the last people I would
want holding my retirement money would be the Teamsters considering their past track record in this area.
Posted by Keith on Wed Aug 13 23:50:56 1997.
Union Vote
Boy Jill, I hope I never get on your wrong side. Now for the business at hand. I think that all of us on the
Corkboard should join the Teamsters and the next time they have an election , we will all vote for JILL. We may
not all agree with her, but any Management would soon give in at negotiations once she gets up on her Soap
Box.
Posted by LT on Thu Aug 14 02:49:17 1997.
Jill....
I am not really angry, especially at you :-). But I have absolutely no use for unions. The one I belonged to, when
we did have a grievance against the company, did absolutely nothing. As a matter of fact, as a result of a
complaint from one worker about unfair pay practices, which was a legitimate complaint, the union managed to
get all our pay cut by one-fourth. The only thing it was ever successful at was sending our local president to
Miami for two weeks out of every year for "meetings". And we paid for it!
In regards to my husband's job, he is a shipping and receiving clerk in a local warehouse which used UPS for
about 90% of thier shipping. Since the other shippers are only taking in about 10% additional shipping during
this time, they can't ship or recieve most of the stuff they do. So, he has nothing to do. And he thinks, since I
talked to him about this last night, that he might still be able to go back to work next week, but will probably
spend his time sweeping floors.
In regards to my pay being due to unions, sorry, that is not true. I work in a small business that is non-union, and
my pay is at the whim of my employer, who happens to think I am worth it. My husband's place of business is
also non-union, and it has been since it started over 50 years ago. All of the workers there are happy about that.
The one time the teamsters tried to come in, the workers flat out voted it down and suggested that the trouble
makers who invited the union men in should find employment elsewhere.
I know about the part unions have played in the history of working men and women in this country. I realize that
they have been very active in changing the laws and rights of the average Joe. But I also realize that they are no
longer the idealized organizations that they used to be. They cause more trouble than they correct, and they
have been known to cost people their jobs in many instances. So, I am not speaking from ignorance. I am
speaking from both practical and educational knowledge. And, please, don't worry about getting me upset.
There is nothing I like better than a good debate, even if I am proved wrong. Gets the blood stirring, don't you
know.
Posted by Marilyn on Thu Aug 14 16:52:12 1997.
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